Xochitl Ashe (01:13)
Welcome everyone. So happy, so happy to have my guests here today with all of you. And so we're just taking this moment to open sacred space. Every podcast is really a conversation where we connect to ourselves to bring in medicine for you. So our prayer is that as we are speaking, sharing, having these conversations that everything that is here for you is exactly, exactly what you need at this time. This very, very challenging time on earth. And so that is the intention. So just closing our eyes and if you're driving, don't worry about it. Just a quick moment to offer gratitude, offer gratitude to the earth. offer gratitude to everything that is here for us today, to our well ancestors, our teachers, our guardians. May our words be guided, calling in the sun, 'Taita Inti Tonatiuh' to shine upon us. Thank you for being here. Thank you, thank you so much for listening. And I want to introduce you Atava Garcia Swiecicki she her, ella is the author of the book Curandera's Toolkit, Reclaiming Ancestral Latinx Herbal Medicine and Rituals for Healing. Atava is guided by her dreams, the plants and her has studied healing arts extensively for over 30 years and has been mentored by herbalist, curanderas and traditional knowledge keepers. She currently works as a clinical herbalist and curandera, Jin Shin Jyutsu practitioner. and medicine maker. She also loves helping people build relationships with plants, who she considers some of our greatest teachers and healers. She was the founder and steward of Ancestral Apothecary School of Herbal, Folk and Indigenous Medicine in Huichin, Oakland for over 20 years. She recently relocated to New Mexico in 2020, where she is learning how to garden in the high desert. Welcome at home.

Atava (03:46)
Thank you so much. I'm so grateful to be here. Thank you for the invitation to be in conversation.

Xochitl Ashe (03:52)
Yeah, well, it's so important for me that people who know you get to hear what you have to say today, especially because I think that we're going to have a really potent conversation about the state of the world and how do we show up. And also, if folks have never heard of Atava, I'm so happy to be introducing you to her and her work because you gotta go get her book. It's really something that you have to have. It's such a good resource for folks. And so I wanna just talk about how I got to know you was a year, I think it's a year and a half ago. We were part, of a conference of Indigenous plant medicine, which was, the focus was on psychedelics. And I really loved your work. And I also had heard about you for a long time and I was really happy to finally meet you in person. I had heard about you from the Apothecary and Herbal Folk in Indigenous Medicine. school in Oakland and that school is still going on. But tell me, how did you begin this journey? How did you come to be who you are in terms of your love and dedication with plants?

Atava (05:36)
Hmm. Thank you. Beautiful, beautiful opening question. And I'll try to make it short because you know, the older we get, the longer these stories are. But I I look back now. I mean, I am actually working on a second book, which has a lot more of my personal story because I'm actually very interested in the narrative, the story of the healer and these kind of these modern times where we are not living in our villages. Well, I'm not, many of us are not in our villages, our community, our cultural group where healers are identified as children or young people and mentored and nurtured to become who they are. I feel like the path of the healer as more of us are detribalized or just living off ancestral land or surviving all the impacts of colonization and whatever our ancestral history is, it's usually traumatic at some point. So I look back now and I really feel like I was called at a young age by my ancestors, my spirit guides, and in my family, just a little bit about my background. So my ancestry is mixed and I have ancestors from Mexico, New Mexico. Poland and Hungary and I always like to say all of them converged in Detroit, Michigan in the early 1900s when that was the booming auto place. So, you know, all my grandparents or grandfathers worked as laborers or in assembly lines. Like it was a lot of people from all around the world were ending up in Detroit. So that's where I was conceived and came into this to this world. But I didn't grow up with in the household strong presence of cultural medicine that I could identify. I now I look back and I can see there's ways it was present, like through food, through relationship to earth, gardening. But, you know, unlike a lot of people, like I didn't have an abuela like rubbing an egg on me for a limpia. My mom was always into healthy food, which I feel like is also, you know, it can be an extension of ancestral practices, but I really feel like I was called in and when I say my bio is called by my dreams, like I really had dreams as a young adult that guided me to certain people and places and experiences, even though there wasn't anyone in my life necessarily telling me the importance of dreams or to listen to dreams. And I also look back and I feel like my intuition, you know, that's also a compass in a way that we're guided. Like, how do we know to like go to this class or meet this teacher, sign up with this teacher or read this book, right? I think that's the way ancestors speak through us is intuition, dreams, visions, and we all get messages in different ways. So when I was in college in the eighties, I think I was searching for a healing modality primarily to heal myself. you know, from a family with, you know, a parent with mental health issues, with addiction issues. And in the 80s, you remember, there wasn't this collective conversation about health, mental health, about addiction, about sexual abuse. It was, everything was just like you just pretended it wasn't happening. At least that was my, how I was. So as I, know, know, move through life, I realized, you know, I had a lot to work with myself. I think I was drawn to finding a way to work, you know, to heal my own ire. So I are emotional issues or past traumas. but, you know, in college, couldn't find anything represented that felt really like what I was looking for, except for the Women's Studies Department, Feminist Studies. And again, this was really amazing.

Xochitl Ashe (09:52)
Thank

Atava (10:02)
time to be, I was going to college when that as a major was just emerging. Like I was literally the first class to get a feminist studies degree. And I was reading like Gloria Anzaldua and Audre Lorde and you all these amazing women of color, like philosopher thinkers. And I was like, ⁓ I found a home there because it resonated, right? Because they were talking about bigger issues than like what was in academia then. So, and then a few years later, I ended up at my first herbal gathering. My sister invited me and I just felt like I came home. Like I saw it was a women's herbal gathering and I just saw women and children running around and like making potions with plants and making teas and tinctures and identifying plants and. I literally just had this all body knowing like, I want to be an herbalist, even though I didn't even know what that was or what it entailed. And I look back now, like that was just some guidance or just ancestral knowing that I wanted to have that relationship with plants as like a lifelong path. So I met my first herbal teacher then, that was in 1994. And then,

Xochitl Ashe (11:25)
Thank

Atava (11:27)
Through that, as I started studying herbalism, it shifted in the quote US, but certainly for a long time, for many decades, when herbalism was taught in schools, was very much either a white European perspective or else plants were talked about, but they were extracted from their cultural context from the...

Xochitl Ashe (11:35)
Thank

Atava (11:52)
they're extracted or disconnected from the ceremonies and the practices that accompany plants. And definitely the spiritual aspect of plants. Like I think a lot of herbalism was like, we can be like medical doctors, but we're using plants. So coming from a lot of rich ancestral backgrounds, just, again, as a young person, I had this curiosity, like what... what were the ancestral plant practices in my lineages? And I really was wondering that before it was trendy as it is now, you know, this was in the 90s before there was even internet accessibles. couldn't Google it. I would just have this like question in my heart and, you know, a prayer. And I really believe... Spirit is always walking with us. Our ancestors are always guiding us because literally I was working at an herbal store in San Francisco and literally into the store walked Doña Enrique Contreras, Zapotec curandera from Oaxaca who was the first full on curandera that I met. And she walked in the store and it was just like, I mean, her presence is. incredible. And she started, she asked me if I spoke Spanish, which I do. And she started telling me about her work and she was looking for a place to teach about traditional Mexican plant medicine. And I was just like, yes, yes, yes. And I was, I think 28 or 29 years old and I hosted my first workshop. I rented a community center and I was doing all like childcare and translation and hosting and it was like the coolest thing I'd ever done. And literally 60 people came from all around the Bay Area to learn traditional Mexican plant medicine and ceremony. And that's when I met my next teacher, Socorro Herrera, who's actually the one that I would call my main curandera teacher. Socorro is from Guadalajara and moved to the Bay Area in the 80s. And she is a traditional curandera from four generations of curanderas. And we had a mentorship for 15 years. And she mentored me at very deep levels about being a curandera. Like it wasn't just about the plants. It was about the prayers, the ceremonies, the spiritual practices. She trained me how to do limpias and barridas and all different spiritual cleansings. She taught me about dreams and the importance of dreams. I learned how to read like Mexican spiritual candles and the spiritual significance. I learned about the, what I call the, like the spiritual cosmogony, like the spiritual, the gods and goddesses in the Mexican traditions. And, you know, she really became like a grandmother to me.

Xochitl Ashe (15:42)
Beautiful.

Atava (15:43)
And then with her, I also started what became Ancestral Apothecary School, you know, because as I started to learn and study and grow, I felt like there was a need, especially again, in those years, the 90s and the 2000s, to teach plants in cultural context, to not just be like, oh, how, you know, this plant is good for this, but where do these plants come from? What's the history of these plants? How are they used traditionally? What are the prayers that go with them? You know, what are the rituals or ceremonies that go with them? So we created like a curriculum around that and I had a school for 20 years and I taught thousands and thousands of people how to work with plants and herbalism through that lens. And now, you know, I'm 56 years old and I feel like the school has run its course and I'm now really just working one-on-one with people. And that feels really good to me. So that's my, that's the trajectory of my journey and how I became, you know, who I am today.

Xochitl Ashe (16:57)
Thank you for sharing that. It's so beautiful and I love how you talk about being called by your ancestors and following the dreams and following the intuition. And it's something that I think is so important for people to understand that that we have access to that guidance and it's available to us. And so tell me more about your book. The Curandera's Toolkit. What prompted you to write this book? And tell us about what's inside of it.

Atava (17:29)
Thank you. Yeah, I'm really happy to talk about it. So the book came out in 2021. And the impetus really came from my 20 years of teaching. I had, you know, hundreds and hundreds of students over the years and I noticed that especially for Latinos and other people of color, there was this real hunger to reconnect with their ancestral plant practices. And a lot of people didn't have access to curanderas or traditional knowledge keepers in their families or in their communities. So I kept getting asked like, you know, where can I learn about this? Where can I find this information? And there really wasn't a comprehensive resource that brought together both the traditional knowledge and the practical application in a way that was accessible to people. So the book is really designed to be a bridge between the traditional knowledge and contemporary life. And it covers, you know, it has information about over 100 medicinal plants that are commonly used in Latino traditional medicine. And each plant profile includes not just the medicinal properties, but also the spiritual and cultural significance, the traditional prayers, the rituals, the ceremonies that go with the plants. It also has chapters on different healing practices like limpias and barridas, how to set up a home altar, how to work with dreams, how to develop your intuition. And I really tried to write it in a way that honors the traditional knowledge while also making it accessible to people who maybe don't have that cultural background or who are just beginning their journey. Because I think that's one of the challenges, right? Is that so much of this knowledge has been suppressed or lost due to colonization and forced assimilation. And so many of us are reclaiming it as adults instead of growing up with it. So the book is really designed to be a resource for that reclamation process.

Xochitl Ashe (19:39)
I love that. And I think that's so needed, especially right now when people are really looking for ways to reconnect with their roots and with their ancestral wisdom. And speaking of right now, we're in such challenging times on the planet. And I know that you've been thinking a lot about the state of the world and how we navigate these times. What do you see happening right now? And how do you think plants and this ancestral wisdom can support us during this time?

Atava (20:13)
Yeah, thank you. That's such an important question. I mean, I think we're in unprecedented times. We're facing so many crises simultaneously - climate change, political instability, social unrest, economic inequality, the ongoing pandemic. And I think a lot of people are feeling overwhelmed and scared and uncertain about the future. And for me, when I look at all of this through the lens of indigenous wisdom and plant medicine, I see it as part of a larger cycle of transformation. Indigenous cosmologies have always understood that we go through these cycles of destruction and renewal, death and rebirth. And I think we're in one of those transitional times right now. And the plants, they're such powerful teachers and allies during times like this. They can help us to stay grounded and centered when everything feels chaotic. They can help us to process grief and trauma. They can help us to connect with our intuition and our inner wisdom. They can help us to remember our connection to the earth and to each other. You know, I think one of the things that's happening is that the old systems are breaking down - the systems that are based on domination and extraction and disconnection. And we need to remember the old ways, the indigenous ways of being in relationship with the earth and with each other. And plants are such a powerful gateway into that remembering. I also think that plants can help us to raise our vibration and to stay in a place of love and compassion instead of fear and anger. Because I think that's really important right now. We need to be able to respond to what's happening from a place of wisdom and clarity, not from a place of reactivity.

Xochitl Ashe (22:24)
Yes, I agree with that so much. And I love how you talk about raising our vibration and staying in that place of love and compassion. Can you share some specific plants or practices that you recommend for people right now to help them navigate these challenging times?

Atava (22:45)
Absolutely. I mean, there are so many wonderful plants that can support us right now. One of my favorites is lemon balm, which is such a gentle but powerful nervous system ally. It's really helpful for anxiety and stress and overwhelm. And it's easy to grow, it's easy to find, it's very safe to use. I'm also a huge fan of chamomile, manzanilla. It's another gentle nervous system ally that can help with anxiety and insomnia and digestive issues. And it has this really beautiful energy of peace and calm. Rose is another one that I love. Rose medicine is all about opening the heart and healing heartbreak and grief. And I think so many of us are carrying a lot of grief right now - grief about what's happening to the planet, grief about the state of the world, personal grief. And rose can really help us to process that in a healthy way. Lavender is wonderful for stress and anxiety and for helping us to relax and sleep. And it has this beautiful energy of peace and protection. And then there are some of the more traditional Mexican plants that I love to work with. Like hierba buena, which is mint, is wonderful for clearing negative energy and for protection. Romero, rosemary, is great for mental clarity and for spiritual protection. Ruda, rue, is a powerful plant for spiritual cleansing and protection, although it needs to be used carefully. But beyond the specific plants, I think it's really important to develop a relationship with plants in general. To spend time in nature, to grow plants if you can, to prepare herbal teas and medicines with intention and prayer. To remember that plants are our allies and teachers, not just things to consume. And I also think it's important to combine the plant work with other practices - meditation, prayer, ceremony, community connection, creative expression. Because healing happens on many levels, and we need to address all of those levels.

Xochitl Ashe (25:21)
That's so beautiful. And I love how you emphasize the relationship aspect of working with plants, not just consuming them but actually building relationship. Can you talk a little bit more about what that looks like in practice? How does someone begin to build relationship with plants?

Atava (25:41)
Yes, that's such a beautiful question. Because I think this is one of the things that's been lost in our culture, right? This understanding that plants are sentient beings with their own consciousness and wisdom. So building relationship with plants starts with changing our perspective from seeing them as objects to seeing them as beings. And then it's about spending time with them, just like you would with any relationship. So if you're drawn to a particular plant, you can start by just sitting with it. If it's growing in your garden or in nature, spend time near it. Talk to it, ask it questions, listen for responses. You might get responses through intuitive knowing, through dreams, through synchronicities. If you're working with dried plants or tinctures, you can still build relationship. Hold the plant material in your hands, smell it, taste it mindfully. Ask the plant to teach you about its medicine. Set intentions when you're preparing teas or medicines. I also recommend keeping a plant journal where you record your experiences with different plants - how they make you feel, what insights you receive, what dreams or visions come up. This helps you to track the relationship over time. And always approach plants with respect and gratitude. Make offerings - water, tobacco, prayers, songs. Remember that you're in reciprocal relationship, not just taking but also giving. I think the key is to approach it with the same respect and care that you would any sacred relationship. Because that's what it is.

Xochitl Ashe (27:32)
That's so beautiful. And I can feel the reverence that you have for the plants and for this work. And I know that you've been doing this work for over 30 years now, and you've seen a lot of changes in how people relate to plants and to healing in general. What changes have you noticed? And where do you see this work heading?

Atava (27:56)
That's a great question. I have seen so many changes over the decades. When I first started in the 90s, herbalism was pretty fringe. People thought you were kind of weird if you were into plants and natural healing. And now it's much more mainstream. People are more open to alternative healing modalities. I've also seen a real shift towards cultural reclamation. More and more people, especially people of color, are interested in reconnecting with their ancestral healing traditions. And I think that's so important and beautiful. At the same time, I've seen some concerning trends. There's been a lot of appropriation of indigenous practices by people who don't understand the cultural context or who are just trying to make money. And there's been a kind of commodification of plant medicine that I find troubling. I've also seen people approach plants in a very reductionist way, like they're just chemicals to consume, without understanding the spiritual and energetic aspects. And I think that misses so much of the medicine. But overall, I'm hopeful. I think more and more people are waking up to the importance of reconnecting with the earth and with traditional ways of healing. And I think plants are going to be increasingly important as we navigate the challenges ahead. I see the future of this work being more community-based, more rooted in cultural traditions, more integrated with other healing modalities. I think we're moving away from the individualistic model of healing towards more collective and community-centered approaches. And I think plants will play a key role in helping us to remember who we are and how to live in right relationship with the earth and with each other.

Xochitl Ashe (30:03)
I love that vision. And speaking of community and collective healing, I know that you've been thinking a lot about how we show up during these times. How do we show up as healers, as human beings, in the face of all of the challenges that we're facing?

Atava (30:22)
That's such an important question. And it's one that I think about a lot. Because I think those of us who are drawn to healing work, we often feel this responsibility to help, to fix, to save. And that can lead to burnout and overwhelm, especially during times like this when the need feels so great. I think the first thing is to remember that we can't pour from an empty cup. We have to take care of ourselves first. We have to do our own healing work, our own inner work. Because we can't give what we don't have. And I think it's important to remember that we're not responsible for fixing everything or saving everyone. Our job is to show up as authentically and fully as we can, to do our piece of the work, and to trust that others are doing their pieces too. I also think it's important to stay connected to our spiritual practices and to our communities. To remember that we're not alone in this work. That we're part of something bigger. And I think we need to find ways to stay hopeful and to keep our hearts open, even in the face of so much darkness and difficulty. Because hope and love are radical acts in times like these. For me, plants have been such a source of hope and wisdom during these times. They remind me that life always finds a way. That even after the most devastating destruction, new growth emerges. That we're part of cycles that are much bigger than our individual lives. And I think our role as healers is to be bridges - bridges between the old ways and the new ways, between the human world and the more-than-human world, between despair and hope. To help people remember their connection to the earth and to their own inner wisdom.

Xochitl Ashe (32:42)
That's so beautiful. And I love how you talk about being bridges. That really resonates with me. And as we start to wrap up our conversation, I'm wondering if you could share some guidance for people who are just beginning this journey of working with plants or reconnecting with their ancestral wisdom. Where do they start?

Atava (33:05)
That's a wonderful question. I think the most important thing is to start where you are with what you have. You don't need to have a lot of knowledge or resources to begin. I would start by just paying attention to the plants around you. Even if you live in a city, there are plants. Notice what's growing in cracks in the sidewalk, in vacant lots, in parks. Start to see plants as beings, not just background. You can also start with very simple, safe plants that are easy to find. Like I mentioned earlier - chamomile, lemon balm, lavender, mint. These are plants that are gentle and forgiving and can teach you a lot. Start making herbal teas with intention. Instead of just drinking tea, ask the plant to share its medicine with you. Pay attention to how it makes you feel, what it teaches you. I also recommend finding community. Look for local herbalists, plant walks, herbal circles. Learning with others is so important. And if you're interested in reconnecting with your ancestral traditions, start by asking questions. Talk to older family members about what they remember about traditional healing practices. Do research about the traditional medicine of your cultural background. But most importantly, trust your intuition. Let yourself be guided by what calls to you. The plants and the ancestors will guide you if you're open to receiving that guidance. And be patient with yourself. This is a lifelong journey. You don't have to figure it all out at once.

Xochitl Ashe (35:12)
That's such beautiful and practical guidance. And I know that you mentioned you're working on a second book. Can you tell us a little bit about what that's going to be?

Atava (35:24)
Yes, I'm really excited about it. The second book is much more personal and narrative-based. It's really about the journey of the modern healer and how we navigate this path when we're not living in traditional communities where healers are identified and trained from childhood. It's about my own journey and the challenges and initiations that have shaped me as a healer. But it's also about the larger patterns and themes that I see in the stories of other healers and wisdom keepers who are doing this work in contemporary times. I'm really interested in how we create new containers for ancient wisdom. How we adapt traditional practices for modern life while still honoring their essence and integrity. And I want to talk about the challenges - the isolation, the doubt, the difficulty of finding community and mentors. But also the beauty and the gifts and the deep fulfillment that comes from this path. I think there's a real hunger for these kinds of stories right now. People want to know that it's possible to live a different way, to follow a spiritual path in the modern world. So it's still in progress, but I'm hoping to have it finished in the next year or so.

Xochitl Ashe (36:53)
That sounds amazing. I can't wait to read it when it comes out. And as we're closing, I always like to ask my guests about their relationship with the earth and with Mother Earth, Pachamama. How do you understand your relationship with the earth? And how does that inform your work?

Atava (37:15)
That's such a beautiful question to close with. My relationship with the earth is really at the center of everything I do. I understand myself as part of the earth, not separate from it. I am earth. We all are. And I think this remembering of our interconnection with the earth is so crucial right now. Because so many of the problems we're facing come from this illusion of separation - the idea that we're somehow separate from and superior to the natural world. For me, working with plants is one of the most direct ways to remember this connection. Plants are literally the earth's medicine. They're the earth's gift to us. When we work with them respectfully and reciprocally, we're participating in this ancient relationship between humans and the more-than-human world. And I think part of our healing as humans is remembering how to be in right relationship with the earth. How to live in a way that honors and supports the web of life that we're part of. So for me, plant medicine and earth medicine are really the same thing. It's about remembering our place in the web of life and learning how to be good relatives to all of our relations - the plants, the animals, the waters, the land, each other. And I think this is part of the medicine that we're here to offer during these times - to help people remember their connection to the earth and to find ways to live that connection in their daily lives.

Xochitl Ashe (55:27)
Hahaha!

Atava (55:39)
You know, you're looking at this as like a healing crisis, but maybe it's an upgrade. Maybe this health issues are forcing me to just take in so many plants that literally again, in a woo woo way, like my vibration is being raised. And I was like, oh, that's like a nice reframing instead of like, oh, I have all this sick, know, I'm sick, sick, sick, whatever. It's like, oh, I'm just getting upgraded. So in that way, I think I would just encourage everybody to build relationship with plants, bring more into your life in more ways and really think about the vibrations of literally what we're putting into our body. Like processed food is pretty low vibration. And again, we need our vibrations high. We need to be resourced and resilient and strong to navigate these times. So we can't kick back. yeah, so I think lemon balm all day long or whatever the herbal nirvana is. I mean, there's so many good plants I could go on and on, but yeah, I've been I owe another one that I've been loving a lot really for a while is chamomile, menzanilla. Like another thing that I'm sure is very dysregulated now for people are asleep and we need our sleep. So again, the having the herbs in the evening that can really help us to unwind and relax and quiet our brains and not be thinking about whatever is causing us, you know, to feel stress. So, but I could go on and on about plants, but yeah.

Xochitl Ashe (57:22)
I love it. Well, you're such a resource for folk and that way I had you here. Well, as we're closing, because we can go on for a long time, I just want you to take this moment to maybe close your eyes Atava. And I just want you to think about one piece of wisdom that was given to you.

Atava (57:32)
Thank

Xochitl Ashe (57:48)
Maybe you inherited from your lineage, your ancestors, but this one piece of wisdom has really supported you throughout your life. And you know in your heart that if you share it today with our listeners, it will really support them too. So whenever you're ready, as your closing piece of wisdom.

Atava (58:11)
Thank you. Yeah, I think what I'll say is kind of repeating what I said before, but really learning to listen to our intuition and learning how your intuition speaks to you because we all have a different way. Like some people like literally will hear messages or for me it's very somatic. So it's also about listening to the body like Trusting our body trust like we are literally the inheritance of all of our ancestors All of our human ancestors all of our plant ancestors our star ancestors is here right now with us so learning to listen and to give space for that voice because I think a lot of us as children had strong intuition that was you know, we saw magic or we heard We believed in magic, we saw fairies, right? We talked to animals and then we got conditioned out of it. So to reclaim that, I feel like that's part of the feminine power that has been suppressed for millennia, the intuitive, the mystical. So the more we can bring that into our own lives, the more that gets activated in the collective. And then also remembering our own divinity. Like I'm studying Mexica cosmogony with a beautiful maestro from DF Adrian Quetzalcoatl And he always says like, the Mexica, like they literally in the, the arc, the, the codices, like the eyes are always what he calls star eyes. They're literally the glyph of the stars. He's like, we, he's like, what do you see with our star eyes? How, how does the world look through our star eyes? So just remembering that we literally like starlight is in us and we are of the stars. Therefore we are divine. We are powerful. We are really, really powerful. And I think a lot of this is, with this I'm saying more than one thing. Doing the inner work like this, there's no fast track to feeling spiritually centered or empowered. It's really doing a lot of our inner work. So finding that. that whatever modality works with you, whether it's therapy or medicine work or plant work or meditation, that we really have to know ourselves and make friends with our underworld, right? We all have those ireis in us. have ancestral trauma, collective trauma patterns we wanna release. yeah, I think. trusting our intuition, giving space for it to grow, giving space for all of those abilities that have been, again, suppressed, repressed for thousands of years to grow in our lives, which also includes empathy and compassion and sensitivity and love. Like we... whatever we do, let it be also connected to our heart center, right? Because our mind can take us places that maybe aren't always in our best interest or the best interest for the collective. So yeah, we are divine, we're sacred, we're powerful, and we're also very powerful in community. I do believe this we're moving to the the we and maybe this individualized consciousness of what I need for myself and my billion dollars is going to like, what if we go back to because it's how all of our ancestors were the we. Trusting our power, knowing our divinity, knowing our hearing our intuition and learning to be guided by it. I I was guided by mine before I even really knew that this that seemed to do. So that's, I feel like it's how powerful our ancestors are. They want us, you know, they're here to guide us. Yeah. So that was more than one. But I'm a Leo. I have to do everything like elaborate, big.

Xochitl Ashe (1:02:30)
I love it. Thank you so much, Atava, Thank you for your wisdom and your time and blessings on your Hopefully we'll have you on again in the future. You have so much, so much wisdom to share.

Atava (1:02:48)
Yeah, it was nice to be. Yeah, thank you for the invitation and to be in conversation for. Yeah, I just want to say I hope these words are seeds of good medicnia for all who hear them. Apologize if I said anything that it hurt or offends anybody. We're all imperfect, but just may it be blessed. And thank you for your work and for bringing. know, amplifying voices again, I feel like this is part of the resistance is just amplifying different narratives and stories and human sentiment we're seeing in the news headlines. Because there's again, millions of incredible light workers on earth right now.

Xochitl Ashe (1:03:38)
it.

Atava (1:03:39)
you