Xochitl Ashe (00:02)
Hello, everyone. I'm so happy we're back with Jesse Johnson Chandra. And I'm so excited to have her here because I am absolutely certain that this conversation is going to be deep. deep, deep fun and expansive medicine for all of us. And so I wanna introduce one of my soul sisters, also teacher and friend on my path, Jesse Johnson Chandra. She works at the intersection of money, power, consciousness and potential. And from this place of expertise, She serves artists, entrepreneurs, and leaders of innovative organizations to make enormous impact on the world. Her coaching enables clients to do the work they are called, make the money that matches them, often seven figures, and live the lives they were built for. Jesse started her career as an algebra teacher and then and instructional coach in New York City public high schools. A decade in dismayed by systematic dysfunction and unsatisfied, she left public schools and built a multimillion dollar coaching business serving healers and spiritual teachers. Following direct guidance from God, Jesse has helped her entrepreneur clients build and grow multi six and seven figure businesses using money. as spiritual technology. I almost want, I wish I had like a, ba ba bow. Like echo, ba ba ba bow, spiritual, spiritual technology. And sales as spiritual practice. She is a painter and I'm gonna just add here, epic musician.

Jesse Johnson Chandra (01:54)
Yeah. Elegy, elegy,

Xochitl Ashe (02:17)
and incorporates this art into her work. And Jesse has my heart. She has become, ⁓ like I said, like a soul sister on my path and also a teacher for me. I'm actually currently in her six month program, Learning Sales. And I was just so excited to introduce her to my community. because it's such an important conversation, this conversation of money, this conversation of sales. I have come to believe that like everything is sales and so we get to choose the path of sales, whether it's looking at it as something ⁓ yucky that we don't wanna do. ⁓ close to being a car sales person that just tries to convince you of something you actually don't want, or sales as a divine calling to open us up to offering what we're here to do in the most integral way of love and connection. And so far, that's what I have learned and what has been amplified in my presence with Jesse. So welcome, Jesse

Jesse Johnson Chandra (03:41)
Thank you, Xóchitl It's so wonderful to be with you. I'm so honored. So honored.

Xochitl Ashe (03:46)
So I just as we're starting this podcast, as I was telling you, you know, I always like to think of like, is what is something I want to learn myself from this time together? And what is the medicine that you hold? And that's why I invited you here. And for me, one of the deep medicines you hold is your spiritual deep relationship with money. And also I love that, you know, it's not that you started as somebody that had money. You actually were a teacher in New York and, you know, as your bio says, were dissatisfied with that whole career ⁓ and decided to do something else. So, I want to hear that story. Like what happened where you're like, all right, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm coaching like I've actually haven't heard that story. You've told us many stories, but that moment of like, OK. Something needs to change. Well, like what what was it that you were like, hmm, coaching is the way.

Jesse Johnson Chandra (04:57)
Uh-huh. So let's see, it's important to also honor my lineage as an activist and as an artist, which I just was too practical to, and living in New York City, is it just expensive enough in the early 2000s that I couldn't figure out how to make money work for myself. And that was the backstory of becoming a teacher in the first place. was like doing something that I believed would help the world and would pay my rent. And I worked in schools for 12 years during which time I got the training that I needed and the coaching that I needed. Cause interestingly, education, at least in my experience of it is a field where coaching is normal. So I had a, I had a math coach. called him from day one of my educational life as a teacher. He was looking at my classes telling me what I needed to, know, what, what, not that I needed to do, but like I was, I was bringing him like, what the fuck do I do now, Rob? And he would give me support and advice, help me see things that I couldn't see. ⁓ And for over a decade, that was really what kept me in the work was like there kept being things that I couldn't see that I was like, okay, well, I'm going to try this again. And if I can see it now, then maybe I can make this transformation happen in my, in, in an individual student, in my classroom, in my school system, in my rate, like at whatever scale I was looking at. When I became a full-time instructional coach. I didn't have my own classroom anymore, but I was working in classrooms all day every day all over New York City. It was the same thing. I was looking at what's the micro change we can make to create a deep shift in the culture around mathematics. And it was only at like year 10, 11, 12, like real late in that game that I was like, okay, I am no longer the thing I'm not seeing. Like I, my blind spots are not the limiting factor anymore. There's something happening at the system level. The very principles that are hiring me and my organization to come and help their teachers who are consciously bought into what we're teaching them are through their policies and decisions for structure in the school, undermining the very thing they hired us to do. And it was like, it's not that I didn't think that it's not that I thought schools were awesome out the gate, but there was something about my own. It's like, I knew that I needed to learn more. I knew that I was a limitation and there was something about that, that turning point at around the decade mark that I was like, okay, I have limitations still, but they're no longer the reason that this thing is limited. My limitations are up here and the limitations of the system are down here. And so then I spent a couple of years like wondering what to do because I was getting angry. I was like not respectful in a fundamental way of my colleagues, of what we were doing. I was kind of like regularly looking at the negative and I'm not really a very negative person. So it really stood out. that I was not able to find enough resources internally to stay resilient in the face of what was happening. And meanwhile, I was falling in love with Sri, who is how I know you, and watching him in his community, which was a very renegade, transformational conglomerate of spiritual communities all over New York City. ⁓ The Bhakti community, the yoga community, the Buddhist community, the Ayahuasca community. was a huge coming together at this time. This was 2010, 2011. And so I just, it was like just enough mutation and inspiration for me to really believe that maybe something else was possible, but I didn't know what and I was really seeking for quite a while. I actually knew some life coaches, but I was not impressed. And so it never occurred to me to like become one. And then I found out that a friend of mine who was a math teacher, I met her at math camp. We like went to a three week intensive math camp for teachers where we just did math for three weeks in Utah. ⁓ I had met her a few years before and I saw on social media that she was

Xochitl Ashe (10:06)
Yeah.

Jesse Johnson Chandra (10:15)
Leaving teaching and being a life coach and, there was something about my mindset shift that I was like, well, I really respect her. And so if she's saying that she is doing this life coaching thing, maybe it's not what I think it is. And so I called her and hired her that day. and that was the beginning, that was the beginning of this chapter that I'm still in, in my career. because she was and is one of the most profoundly conscious, sophisticated, refined, elevated human beings that I've ever known. And what she taught me was about business and money and how to kind of, I didn't really, I'd never thought about those things, but it was also immediately for me, non-different from all my other spiritual practices. And so it was easy for me to make the shift because it was like everything that I have prepared my whole life to do. remember having a conversation with her where I was like, ⁓ like even my parents being therapists and raising me in the way that they did has prepared me for this work. And I think it was so, like every part of me wanted all of me to be wanted, welcome and used in my work. And. And that had never happened before. So when I started my business, I was highly motivated to, to pull the whole thing off because it was the place where my artistry, my activism, my training and intelligence as a, as a teacher and a leader was all brought into one sphere. And actually in the very beginning, my plan was to coach retreat leaders. on their curriculum. Like I was used to working with math teachers on their curriculum and how, how their students were really integrating the, the experience of education. It wasn't just like a, a moment, but like what change was really happening over time. And I was really motivated to bring that same work into this sort of spiritual education conversation, because I could see a lot of. spiritual educators who were creating these peak experiences on retreat, but not really tracking how that transformation lasted or didn't. It was like, if people had a great experience on retreat, then that was the end of the conversation. It was like, yeah, but do their lives change as a result? Or do they just go back to the same suffering and struggle that they're used to? So that was like the original impetus. And I think I had maybe three conversations with people that I thought might be potential clients for me. And I literally had the experience that God was like, you know, coming from behind and was like, you know, Jesse. And I remember being kind of like bummed was like, I'm excited to talk about curriculum. I'm excited to talk about what they do in there in the room with their people, but it felt very direct that money like picked me by the back of the neck, like a kitten and just moved me to the place where, where I was most needed. And so again, that happened like a couple of weeks in it was very, very early. And so then all of a sudden I was like, okay, I'm going to help.

Xochitl Ashe (13:34)
Thank

Jesse Johnson Chandra (14:01)
retreat leaders with money. I'm going to help people who are taking people to Costa Rica and India and Thailand on retreat, figure out how to do this in a sustainable way. And what's so incredible of course, is that like by doing the work around money, we become more conscious in all areas of our lives. And so the work around curriculum naturally improves. I don't really have to like go target that in order for people to get. even better at that. And also to be fair, most of the people that I work with are already really good at that stuff. Money is like a strange blind spot for most of the people that I support.

Xochitl Ashe (14:44)
Can we talk about that? Can we talk about how it's a strange blind spot? I've seen it. I've ⁓ I think I'm unique in that. I've been doing this money work for a really, really long time. But, you know, ⁓ I was very much a pioneer with my contemporaries. Like there was so much resistance to money. ⁓ And so that's why I like I loved you. loved that you were talking about that combination of spirit and money. And I was like, yes, Jesse knows what's up. But tell me more about that blind spot, because I'm sure our listeners may be having that blind spot.

Jesse Johnson Chandra (15:33)
Hmm. I mean, I think to be fair, it's also important to acknowledge that I think everyone has awakening to in the realm of money. Even if they're financial advisors or accountants or people whose literal work is always about numbers and money. I think we all have a growth edge here. ⁓ I think money is one of the places where in our current society, we are the most conditioned to. compromise, feel restricted by into external narratives of what's possible for us and be driven by those narratives. even if your listeners are all wealthy and having a great life and not feeling particularly financially restricted, I want to invite everybody to lean in and be curious about what might you be missing? That sounds a little negative. Might there be that you haven't yet seen in your own relationship to money? what would be fun for you to experience more of or less of in your relationship to money. And then back into my conversation, it's funny because I just watched a beautiful, I watched a beautiful, beautiful teacher yesterday. I was just introduced to her and I watched a video that she posted on social and she was just speaking with such clarity, refinement. It's like I love it. I freaking love it when I hear like someone who's been in their work for decades and really knows what they're talking about, knows the whole lay of the land and understands how to do their work with such high levels of integrity. So it was very clear to me early on. was like, y'all, I'm not going to make some pithy like statement to keep you watching. I think in full thoughts, I talk in full sentences. and it's gonna be worth it. I was like, I'm fucking in, give me the slow version, you So I'm listening to her, I'm learning from her, loving her. And then right at the end, she just slipped in there. And so as a result of making all these correct, powerful changes and serving people correctly, I'm not making as much money, but it's worth it to me because I am committed to living a life of service. And I was like, flabbergasted because I literally the whole time it was like this, like full transmission, just steady, steady, steady. And then for me, that was a major drop, a major glitch, a major blip. And then she went right back, you know, back to the transmission. But I feel like that that's like, maybe a little more extreme than it's all. It's not always so visible, but that's the paradigm that we have to choose. We've been conditioned to believe that we have to choose between service and wealth. And part of what I think is so important about this conversation that you and I can have is that it's not crazy. Like, it's not crazy that people think that. We have been raised, especially us, know, like 80s babies or 80s toddlers or 80s kids. It's like, we have been raised in a... in a culture where we've seen a lot of examples of people sacrificing integrity in the name of money. And we live in a culture that for centuries, if not millennia, has been based on oppressing whole humans in the name of money. So it's not a crazy idea that these things are separated. But I think that the old, the old, paradigm, the old standard is that the best response to that history is to not make money, just to steer clear of it so that we can make sure that we're on the straight and narrow, being good people, contributing to a wholesome society. And when I entered this work, because now there's a bunch of people doing it at all levels of integrity, but when I entered this conversation, there really weren't, think, very similar to you. was like there were there weren't a lot of spiritual folks talking about money yet. And so there was like an individual blind spot that people that came to me had, but also a collective blind spot, not only held by spiritual folks, but I think held by our larger society that like, it was normal for a yoga teacher to be broke. It was normal for someone who was teaching meditation to be a renunciate. It was normal. It would have been really weird, right? Deepak Chopra 10 years ago was an anomaly. because he was famously spiritual and famously wealthy. What I was seeing when I started, and this of course is still true, it's, I'm talking about lineage here. So, is that that renunciation of money had restricted a very particular kind of agency. personal power. I don't mean power over. mean a sense of empowerment in the spiritual community that it had become culturally acceptable to tolerate lack scarcity and that the juxtaposition of like I believe in God. I believe in miracles. I believe we can heal anything. I believe we can create our reality. I believe we can have whatever world we want. I believe in all this good, but I don't know if I can pay my rent. I don't know if I can pay for that organic food. It's like You know, it's like, it's actually quite problematic when those financial beliefs are in such contrast. I I wouldn't wish this on anyone, but for someone who's living a life where they just kind of believe that life sucks, then for them to feel limited around money matches at least, there's like coherence there. But for folks who are doing this work around faith, around being the truth of who they really are around expressing themselves and welcoming full liberation for humanity. There's something about the way that, again, this phenomenon responds to money and kind of shuts down that I think has been calling for a long time. It's like, look here, look here, what's really here. If you understand everything that's happening around money and from that place of empowerment, you choose to be a renunciate and not touch it, that's different. But if you aren't touching money because you're afraid of it, if you aren't touching money because you judge it, if you aren't touching money because you think you can't have it, that's not empowerment. That's not conscious. That's not true choice. And so I've worked with people around that conversation and it is one of the most profound and sacred and intimate conversations I have. That's why I still do it, because I find it really compelling. It's just not, it's not trivial for anyone. Whether they've come from money or not, whether they have, you know, lived a privileged life or not, whether they... have all that they want and what we're talking about is surplus or not. It's like there's something really, really deep about the ways that people feel bound around money. And the decision to unwind, unbind and get free in that space is really deep and intense and provoking and terrifying for most people.

Xochitl Ashe (23:37)
Yeah, I mean, I've I've completely experienced it in that. ⁓ You know, my grandfather, so he was a medicine man and we would have we had a store. was like an arts and crafts store in Mexico, in a very popular town called San Miguel de Allende. And my grandfather, like, refused to charge like he refused to charge anyone that would come for seeking healing. from him. So he would close the store at eight o'clock at nighttime, and then people would come. And so he wouldn't get home. My grandma would be like, Why do you get home at like 11 o'clock? Like, what's going on? But it's because he would close the store, and people would come and get free healing from him. And he really had this belief that, you know, we should not charge for people's healing. And So it took me a long time. My dad actually was a medicine man too, but he wasn't, ⁓ yeah, he had a really hard time charging. And so instead of like charging, he would just offer things for free. And so it took me to make a decision. as a medicine woman, like fifth generation, ⁓ I started, I was like, I'm gonna be a business coach, you know, because I had been an entrepreneur since I was 17. And so was like, I'm not, you know, like I'm not a medicine woman. I'm a business coach. And it took me years of like being a business coach to entrepreneurs to finally say to my clients, I just, want you to know all I wanna talk about is God, goddess right now. Like we can talk about business. And we can talk about money. But like if you're coming to me, we're talking about God, goddess. Like I don't want to talk about anything else. And money is going to be included in that conversation as a spiritual conversation. And I remember making that decision coming out of the closet as like a medicine woman in in the business entrepreneurial world. And, you know, of course, like I had mentors that like. definitely supported that push. But it was because I was coming from mentors that were like, were teaching conscious commerce, conscious business, right? And so, wow, it like, I had to really break like literal generational trauma with money. And coming to our work together, it's been really powerful because I just feel like you have embodied for me, what is possible, like really what is possible while maintaining a direct, like for me it's just like, you know, it's Pachamama, it's the earth, right? Like that is my. my source that is like everything, everything I go to. And of course, you know, I have a whole spiritual team, but that's what I teach. And as an indigenous person, as a medicine person, ⁓ wow, we are so criticized when we take ownership of not only our gifts, we, but like we talk about money, right? And So I'm just like a lot of people I've shared my story in, ⁓ you know, with my community, but not like this. And so I just wanted to bring my story to this conversation because I believe that what you add to my life, Jesse, is a confirmation like, yes, yes, we get to have it all. We get to have it all.

Jesse Johnson Chandra (27:56)
good for the world for you to have it all. Yeah.

Xochitl Ashe (27:56)
So see.

Jesse Johnson Chandra (28:04)
Yeah, it's really important to hear you speak. I'm so grateful that you're doing this podcast and that you're doing the work that you do in the world, your voice and the level of empowerment that you carry in your work matters so much. And your lineage matters so much. And I think that our lineages are being called into new paradigms. Maybe, maybe it was correct always for these things to be free in the past. And now the world has changed and we actually, the level of self-sacrifice that is required in order to live that way isn't sustainable. It's not. And I think the world is also needing more healing. You and I have been called to do this full time, not as a side hustle. And we've said yes to that calling. And so there's something very important about allowing ourselves to receive, allowing ourselves to receive. And I got a shout out that I recently had this experience, which you've also had now we've talked about this. of working with someone who works by donation. And ⁓ For me, it made something safe. because it was in a health context and there was something about it that I had really felt taken advantage of, really felt sort of. Hmm. dehumanized by what I've paid for healthcare in both Western allopathic kind of context, mainstream medical system stuff, of course, I feel like everyone knows what that is, but also in alternative healthcare scenarios. And so there was something profound for me about paying this person who did not require me to pay him. It made it easier for me to trust him. and his medicine. And because of what I know about money, I pay him extremely well. And I genuinely have no idea if he's like living in relative, I don't think he's living in relative poverty. Cause I know a bunch of other people who pay him really well, but I I'm like, haven't yet talked with him about his own relationship to money and how he navigates working by donation. But my suspicion is that. Like I actually, he helped me with something to do with money. There was a connection between my physical health and what I was doing around money. And he understood enough. to be able to help me with that. it's like, there's even with that, even this person who has chosen to live the life of a renunciate saint in some form has an understanding of how money works and is willing to be paid very well. And so I just think that I, it's interesting that I'm bringing him in because his structure is so different from what most of the people that I work with choose. But I think it represents that like this also isn't about one thing. What we're talking about isn't about following a formula and charging one way so that you can make money. It's like actually letting yourself listen to God and the guidance that's being given to you in the realm of money as much as in every other realm. And to be willing to follow those instructions, whether those instructions are to pull out a begging bowl and only eat what's given to you or to charge seven figures for a consulting contract. And think a lot of this has to do, and this is kind of getting into a more advanced conversation, but it's important to name. has to do with what serves the people you work with. What's best for them. Is it best for them for you to charge? Is it best for them for you to work by donation? Is it best for them for you to not accept money? And for my work, it's best for my clients to pay people that don't pay don't actually receive the benefit of my work in part because they haven't consented money as a tool that I use for consent. And so yeah, I can just feel the like there's 17 hours worth of conversation sparking off. Where, shall we go next? Xóchitl.

Xochitl Ashe (32:53)
Yeah, well, I one of the questions I have is what has been your most challenging moment? And I know that there's so many challenging moments at all times, but what has been your most recent challenging moment when dealing with money?

Jesse Johnson Chandra (34:05)
Hmm. Well, this is a very private conversation. I really haven't spoken like publicly about it yet, but I, I trust the call. ⁓ about three years ago, I started looking, I had just become a parent. So I had an almost one year old. I was living in the $3 million house that we bought in Sedona. was working with a huge team and. you know, spending something like 90K a month on team. And I loved the work that I was doing. Like when I was FaceTime with clients, I was really enjoying that all the time. And I actually was really enjoying my time with my team when we were working on the business. But I didn't, I wasn't in love with what we were. Somehow there was just something in the field that was not working for me. And as we were trying to expand, we had been making about two, two and a half million a year and we were working to go to five. And in that expansion, just kind of looking at like, okay, where do we trim the fat? Where do we focus? Where do we, what do we, what's our strategy for doubling? And in that process, I got much, much deeper into human design. I had been studying human design for a long time, but I had never really understood strategy and authority, which is very ironic because strategy and authority is kind of the main thing in human design. And, and what I started to look at, I'm a generator. I'm a sacral being. This is just like a little mini deep dive into human design, but I wasn't satisfied. And whether you know about human design or not, you can imagine what it's like to like carve out, you know, a, a life work, a body of work that is meant to be the purest expression of truth and service and love and art and activism in my life and not actually be satisfied. not feel like it's correct. It's like the sculpture came out wrong. We made it with the wrong materials or something. It was working before, but now it's starting to fall apart. There's something off. And so I went into a period of a couple of years of really like deep devotion to only like, like a level of radical unapologetic prioritization that I, I thought that I had claimed, but I hadn't. And I, I, I think I both threw out some of the baby with the bathwater. I also think I just needed, actually that's not true. I just don't believe that. I think I just needed a really clean slate. I needed a really clean slate. And so there was a period of time where I didn't have much work. I didn't have many clients. I fired all my team. I wasn't making much money. We sold our house in Sedona mostly because we didn't want it, but also cause we kind of needed the money. it was like, I, it was hard for me to keep my faith. It was hard for me to really. continued to believe that this was all happening for my benefit. And just to note it, the narrative that kept catching me, baiting me, was that I had done something wrong. Was that it was my fault and I was an idiot. being punished at some level. I kind of knew that wasn't like I knew better, but I felt that. So much of this, I think, is very connected to parenting. Not that parenting is the cause of suffering in this way, but just that parenting changed me so foundationally that I was not the same person. The business that I built that was working so well for me was the business of a woman who did not have a child. And in order to find the right business for me, I really had to create a kind of desert for myself for a while. Ironically, I moved out of the desert, but created an internal desert. And I, it's like, knew everything that I knew, but I just didn't want to do the things that I had done before to make money. And there were a lot like a huge, I mean, we, again, hours of conversation about all the things that that was like, but the whole time I was like, what's happening right now? I think I trust what's happening right now, but it sucks. Wait, can I teach people about money? If I'm not making enough money? Like what it was a real, I never had that kind of self doubt before. It was very humbling. You know, there's this sort of thing about really, really wealthy people, like Warren Buffett era, that they've all been bankrupt. And that they, people that teach about this stuff, they maybe have more than one name, but the name that I think of is blueprint, that people have a money blueprint. And so people who have millions or billions of dollars can go bankrupt and come back to their kind of... foundational template very quickly. And we did not file for bankruptcy, but it was kind of like a bankrupt time. And now I have a multi seven figure business again. And so it's like the pivot that I went through both in putting the business to bed and then in waking it back up and refining it so that it would work for me in a more sustainable way. has given me wisdom that I feel very grateful for and as uncomfortable as it was while it was happening and as confused and uncertain as I felt. I feel much more. ⁓ whole, humane, tender, compassionate. I feel like I know a lot more about what people go through and that I'm a better coach as a result.

Xochitl Ashe (40:39)
Hmm. What do you attribute? Like what supported you during this time to come out of that place and into the place that you are now?

Jesse Johnson Chandra (40:55)
Painting. spending time at the ocean, connecting with people who really love me, both friends and family and coaches and teachers. I feel I, it's like there was a way in which in my old business I was kind of ⁓ like. I was a persona. It's not like I was super famous or anything, but I had enough going on that the structure of the business kind of insulated me and kept most people away. And that was necessary for that structure at the time. But I don't want to live that way. I'm not built to live that way. I'm built to live in deep, intimate connection with everyone in my life, at whatever, in whatever relationships we have. so, ⁓ that's much more integrated now. I cried a lot during that time. I got angry a lot. I think I raged at God a lot. I also think I cracked open wounds that had been covered, but were just waiting for healing and needed to be. Need needed to were ready. We're ready to be seen and touched by the light ready to be seen and touched by the air ready to have the bandage removed, even if it was a little uncomfortable. But also fucking Xóchitl, while it was happening. I was like, what the actual fuck on a regular basis? You know, I just I could I could not have spoken the way I'm speaking now while it was happening. ⁓

Xochitl Ashe (42:38)
Hahaha

Jesse Johnson Chandra (42:50)
And I really lost connection to my faith mostly in myself. It wasn't faith in God that was really threatened. It was faith in myself. I just felt like, yeah, maybe I suck. Maybe all those earlier, I didn't suck before, but maybe I suck now.

Xochitl Ashe (43:08)
Yeah

Jesse Johnson Chandra (43:10)
I was so tender and sweet and sad and relevant because I think we, know that I talked with, I talked to myself that way a lot when I was younger. And, ⁓ and I think we all have been conditioned to talk to ourselves in that way. And so to have the opportunity to really look at those parts of myself that I had just kind of like tucked away and compartmentalized, but are ready to be loved by the woman I am now. That's how I see it now. Heartbreak is medicine for me. One of my favorite songs on my new album that will be released very soon is called Heartbreak Paradise. think that's one of the many lessons of this time that I'm able to see now. Is it like, yeah, it was heartbreaking. It was heartbreaking. And I am a disciple of heartbreak. Heartbreak cracks me open to letting more God in and understanding what I really am. disrupts the illusions that I construct and reconstruct that protect me from the truth that we die. I went to a beautiful performance last night. It so great at the Pasadena Playhouse of all places. And it was like a comedic clown transformational performance. I've never seen anything like it. And there was this moment in the middle of the 70 minute performance when the performer put up like a meditation on the head of this man who was, had a problem that he can't sleep enough. And she was like, maybe you guys, she started talking to audience, maybe you guys can hear the meditation. And we all got the full sound of what he was hearing. And it was like, know, spiritual music and toning, whatever. And then her voice coming in, all your friends and family are going to die.

Xochitl Ashe (45:18)
Ha ha!

Jesse Johnson Chandra (45:22)
And I was like, yes, yes, yes, that is the meditation. That is the correct portal to freedom. Yes, remind me again. I forgot again.

Xochitl Ashe (45:35)
Well, you know, we could spend a lot of time together, but I want to know, like, why is money a spiritual technology? And I'm going to do the ba-ba-ba-bam! Technology, technology, technology.

Jesse Johnson Chandra (45:48)
Hmm. Spiritual, spiritual, spiritual, technology, technology, technology. I love it. I have like a hundred things I could say about this. Let's see which ones of them can come out quickly. For me, when I had that experience of being picked by money, of being directed by God to focus on money, I mean, immediately it was like, ⁓ then I saw that I had been keeping God out of the money conversation. I just was like, I'm responsible for that. Not in a like, because I'm so powerful, just like I thought that was too mundane for God. and the recognition that like, God is everywhere. God is in everything. And I want to be in relationship with God everywhere and everything. So what does it look like to bring God in here? And that is the work of decades now. What has changed in my life and the lives of my clients when we charge differently, when we spend differently, when we earn differently, both in terms of what we earn, the increasing the number, but also in terms of increasing the quality of the work that we're doing as the exchange. I have not seen more significant transformation. It touches the deepest parts of our self-worth. our self love, our maturity, our capacity to parent ourselves and take care of ourselves actually. Not just again, like temporary bandages everywhere, Michelin man style, but actually being whole, able to be naked in the world and still know we are ourselves and safe, protected. I think sales in particular shows is a very powerful mirror. It's one of the best forms of consciousness work that I know. It's very hot, very fast, very intense, very confronting, but that also makes it very efficient. It's like we can see our codependencies. We can see where we're people pleasing and wanting to be liked and not really unconditional. Can see where we're attached. We can see where we're. gripping, can see where we're working too hard. ⁓ And I think in many ways, both money and our relationship to money is also a mirror for how we are showing up in the world, showing up in our lives, feeling as powerful as we are using the gifts that we've been given. And in my experience of my own life, you know, as a direct corollary to the story I was just sharing. When I reclaimed my belief in myself, immediately I started making multiple six figures a month again. I mean, it was like a switch. Now I knew already how to do that. I don't think it's a trivial thing to figure out how to do that in the first place. So there it's worth making that distinction. this it's like the amount of our love of ourselves, not from an egoic place, but from a place of true acceptance in my lived experience is directly proportional to how much money we earn and have. You and I have talked just a little bit about this book, the having it's the best book about money I've ever read. And I feel like it also points to this spiritual technology of money very well. because in that book it's all about money as a practice of presence. Right now I'm wearing this new pink shirt. Everybody likes the color. I've never worn this color before. Can I have this color? I spent money to buy this shirt. Can I feel good about the choice to spend that money that I had the money to spend? Yeah, it's like that look around your life. There's a financial component to every single thing. The water you're drinking, the necklace you're wearing, the headphones you're using, the internet service that you're standing on in this room, or as you listen to the podcast streaming, it's like, there is there is a portal to more consciousness to more God everywhere through the doorway of money.

Xochitl Ashe (50:35)
I have a question that might require you to just close your eyes for a second. I've been thinking a lot about, you know, legacy and. as you said, know, everybody you know and your family is going to die and also we're going to die like maybe this podcast will be heard in the year 2050. Somebody will find it. But with your work with. with money as a spiritual technology. What, what is, if you had one last message to do, to share with the world, perhaps with people who are new to looking at money as a spiritual technology, like what would this message be?

Jesse Johnson Chandra (51:37)
who you are is wanted. who you really are has value beyond price, beyond number. what you think your gifts are. You're right. You're right. What you feel and know in the core of your being. You came here to this earth to do. You're right. And if hearing me say that sends you into any kind of confusion or uncertainty, just breathe, just let it be mysterious still. It's okay if you haven't landed in the center of your purpose yet. You will. You can't help it. Everything is gravitationally pulling you towards the center of who you really are. It is the easiest thing for you to do. and the resources for you to be who you are and serve as yourself came here with you. You arrived, you incarnated, you birthed life here on earth with the resources that you require. And so whatever they are, human resources, financial resources, creative resources, They're here and they're here right now. And you can be gentle with yourself as you believe in that, as you turn your attention to the possibility that I'm leaning in the direction of allowing those resources to find you, allowing yourself to find those resources. to pay attention to what matches you, to pay attention to what matches you, to pay attention to what matches you. To trust that you're right. doesn't matter if no one else has ever affirmed it, you're right. The world is changing. The world is changing. Your truth is part of what will change it, part of what will heal it, part of what will resolve whatever problems we face. Let us have you.

Xochitl Ashe (54:12)
Thank you so much, Jesse. I love you endlessly. And I hope to bring you back. May this conversation be medicine for all those that are listening. May we release any blocks, any conditioning, any...

Jesse Johnson Chandra (54:20)
Mm.

Xochitl Ashe (54:38)
and sessual burdens, generational burdens with money. Because even though we might not like the monetary system, this is what is available to us at this moment. And therefore, it's time to be powerful. believe that money in my hands is good for the earth. I believe that money in our hands is good for the earth and we can really create a powerful world. ⁓ when the people that actually ⁓ should be having the money have the money. So thank you for being here, Jesse, and thank everybody for listening. Any last words that you want to share before we close?

Jesse Johnson Chandra (55:17)
Mm. Thank you. Mmm, I don't know. I was rolling on the floor with you in delight. I love you. I'm honored. Thank you.

Xochitl Ashe (55:33)
Yeah. Yes, love you too. Thank you.